Marc Maron/Jay Bakker WTF Recap

Warning: rambling ahead.

Marc Maron is a hero of mine in a few different ways, and I freakin’ love his podcasts. But I’d been putting off listening to his interview with Jay Bakker (a Minneapolis pastor) because I thought Jay would just be another pseudo-modern, buttery-smooth evangelical “church leader” trying to make really gross theology sound cool.

Turns out, he’s not, which was an awesome surprise. He sounds like…an okay human being. Like he’s trying to figure it out and knows he doesn’t have all the answers, but wants to do the best with what he does have.

His church is called Revolution and it meets at Bryant Lake Bowl on Sundays (although not in summer apparently). I really want to start going to it. I’m pretty fed up with the conservative Christian churches I’ve been attending all my life. I’m tired of social justice issues being ignored, I’m tired of LGBTQ issues being ignored, I’m tired of being told I’m causing lust problems by wearing yoga pants. I’m tired of not being able to trust anyone in church leadership. I’m tired of hearing pop psychology respun as truth from the mouth of God.

I hate going to church, to be honest. But I hate the thought of turning into a stereotypical unchurched Millennial even more. I still believe church can be a good thing — community for people who are trying to live the way Jesus taught, a place that reminds you what your priorities should be. But I haven’t seen a lot of that in the churches I’ve attended in the past fifteen years.

I want a church where everyone is welcome. Where a gay couple can come and feel at home, where race issues aren’t ignored. Where talking to the pastor doesn’t feel like talking to a salesman or a CEO. Where we don’t feel the need to “be cool” by setting up a DJ to spin crappy EDM in the lobby after service. Where we have Bible studies that tangle with something more intellectually substantial than Beth Moore.

Anyway, here’s the interview with Jay Bakker. You should listen to it. As Maron would say, “it’s deep, man.”


  1. It was interesting to read your article. I think in some ways you were contradicting yourself, however. For example, you mention you want to find a church where LGBT issues are not ignored yet believe a lesbian or gay couple should feel at home in church. I do believe in accepting anyone the way they are and a same sex couple should be welcome at a church. However while they should be accepted in love, truth should be shown in love as well. Churchs can’t accept same sex marriage and quote: “live together as Jesus taught.” That is contradictory to the truth that is very clear in scripture. Homosexuality is a sin that is becoming twisted into an okay reality in our culture. Other issues are not so clear and often we make them into unnecessary giants. I don’t know if yoga pants are good or bad. That’s more of a personal conviction of how much of your body you care the world sees. Maybe a better way to put it: why or why not and what’s the motive? I think you do have some good points regarding the atmosphere of church and how showy they can become. Sooner or later believers are going to have to unite together to stand for truth and forget about all the other lesser issues such as power, music shows and petty arguments. I’ll be honest I didn’t listen to the interview just read your article that goes with it so no sure all what’s in there. Anyways. In love only!

    Liked by 1 person

    • Hey Betha!

      Sorry it took me so long to get back to you. Busy week.

      You make really good points. I guess the gist of my response is to say that the yoga pants and the unfriendliness toward LGBT people and the lack of interest in social justice issues all seem to be symptoms of legalism and maybe pride in the Western Christian church. Yeah, the New Testament says homosexuality is wrong, but it also says women keeping their hair long is a sin. The church is adamant on the former and completely ignores the latter. Why?

      It just makes no logical sense to me that a loving, committed relationship between two gay people is automatically sin. It also makes no logical sense to me that women are prohibited from preaching or speaking in church. I can’t get behind prohibitions that seem completely arbitrary like that. So yes, I’m struggling to accept them as truth.

      I think you also have to consider the effects of an ideology while judging its value, and I have seen some serious negative effects (alienation, bitterness, abuse of power, etc.) stemming from conservative Christian ideology that rejects feminism, race equality and sexual orientation equality as values to be pursued. Bethlehem Baptist church JUST came to theological agreement on the fact that a woman may leave a (physically) abusive husband. How many women lived in misery or fear before that because her church told her it wasn’t right for her to act independently even when her physical safety was in jeopardy?

      John Piper also wrote an article years ago stating that, in a hypothetical hostage situation, a woman with the skills needed to protect her and her husband should step back and let her husband try to protect her — even if he didn’t have the skills to do so. So basically, his life is to be sacrificed unnecessarily for the sake of his masculine honor. It’s idiotic, illogical statements/attitudes like this that have soured me on a lot of conservative Christian beliefs.

      So that’s where I’m coming from, in a nutshell. 🙂


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